January 2nd, 2011 by lucas
I have finally reached a decision regarding my involvement in the Debian Ruby packaging efforts. I have decided to stop. This has been a very hard decision to make. I have invested huge amounts of time in that work over the years. I still love the language, and will continue to use it on a daily basis for my own developments. I still hope that it will succeed. I know that some people will be disappointed by that decision (and that others will think “your work was useless anyway, people should use RVM and rubygems”).
But I also know that I won’t be able to push for all the required changes alone. I just don’t have the time, nor the motivation. For the record, here are the changes I would have liked to see in the Ruby community.
The core Ruby development community should mature.
The core Ruby development community is still dominated by Japanese developers. While not a bad thing in itself, it is easily explained by the fact that the main development mailing list, where most of the important decisions are taken, is in japanese. ruby-dev@ should be closed, and all the technical discussions should happen on the english-speaking ruby-core@ list instead.
The release management process should also improve. Currently, it looks like a total mess. The following Ruby development branches are actively maintained:
ruby_1_8 (106 commits over the last six months)
ruby_1_8_6 (4 commits over the last six months)
ruby_1_8_7 (35 commits over the last six months)
ruby_1_9_1 (4 commits over the last six months)
ruby_1_9_2 (227 commits over the last six months)
trunk (1543 commits over the last six months)
While the state of the ruby_1_8_6 and ruby_1_9_1 branches is clear (very important bugfixes only), the state of all of the other branches is rather unclear.
What’s the stable Ruby branch? 1.8 or 1.9? If it’s 1.9, why are people still actively developing in the ruby_1_8 branch? How long will they continue to be maintained in parallel, dividing the manpower? Is a Ruby 1.8.8 release to be expected? Will it be ABI/API compatible with 1.8.7? Is the ruby_1_8_7 branch really bugfixes-only? How much testing of it has been done? If it’s bugfixes-only and regression-free, I should push it to Debian squeeze, due to be released in a few weeks. But would you recommend that? Due to past breakages in the ruby_1_8_7 branch, it’s unlikely that we will do it.
Is the ruby_1_9_2 a regression-free, bugfix-only branch? If yes, isn’t 227 commits over 6 months a lot? What will be the version of the next release of “trunk”? When is it expected? Will it be ABI-compatible with the current ruby_1_9_2 branch? API-compatible?
New releases in the 1.8.7 and 1.9.2 branches were done on december 25th. Why were they no betas or RCs allowing wider testing? How much testing has been done behind the scenes?
Most of those questions have no clear answer. The Ruby development community should build a common understanding of the status of the various branches, and of their release expectations. Releasing on december 25th of each year sounds fun, but is releasing when everybody is on vacation really a good idea?
It would be fantastic to have something similar to Python Enhancement Proposals in the Ruby community. But having open discussions in english about the major issues would already be great.
Ruby is not just the interpreter.
The Ruby development community should clearly define what the Ruby platform is. There are some big players, like Rails, and newer interpreter releases should not be done before ensuring that those big players still work.
Also, since we have alternative Ruby interpreters, like JRuby, Rubinius and MacRuby, we need a clear process on how they integrate with the rest of the ecosystem. For example, having each of them rely on their own outdated fork of the whole stdlib is ridiculous, since it’s not where they compete.
The Ruby community should acknowledge that RVM and Rubygems are not for everybody. People who say so should be laughed at. Of course, RVM and Rubygems are nice tools for some people. But it is completely wrong to believe that compiling from source using RVM should be the standard way of installing Ruby, or that all people interested in installing Redmine should know that Ruby has its own specific packaging system. The Ruby community should work with their target platforms to improve how Ruby is distributed instead of reinventing the wheel. That includes Debian, but also RedHat-based distros, for example. It is likely that it won’t be possible to reach a one-size-fits-all situation. But that’s real life.
Some people in the Ruby community should stop behaving like assholes. As one of the Debian Ruby maintainers, I have been routinely accused of creating crippled packages on purpose (FTR, I don’t think that the Debian packages are crippled, despite what the rumors says). Debian is not the only target of that. Just yesterday, someone called for abandonning YARV (the new Ruby VM in Ruby 1.9), calling it Yet Another Random Vailure. This kind of comments is really hurting the people who are investing their free time in Ruby, and is turning away people who consider getting involved. In Debian, we have had a lot of problems getting people to help with Ruby maintenance since they are getting shit from the community all the time.
So, what’s the future for Ruby in Debian?
- For the interpreter, the two other maintainers, Akira Yamada and Daigo Moriwaki, are of course free to continue their work, and I wish them good luck.
- For the pkg-ruby-extras team, which maintains most of the Ruby libraries and applications, the future is less clear. The team was already badly understaffed, and I feel that I should probably clean up its status by orphaning/removing the packages that are unmaintained otherwise. This won’t affect all the packages that the team maintains: some packages (like redmine) are actively maintained, and will stay.
- For me, it just means I will have more time for other things (possibly not Free Software-related). If things improve dramatically, I might also come back to Ruby packaging at some point.
Update: there’s also a number of interesting comments about this post on this site.
Update 2: First, thanks a lot for all the interesting comments. I will make some follow-up posts trying to summarize what was said. It seems that this post also triggered some reactions on ruby-core@, with Charles Olivier explaining the JRuby stdlib fork, and Yui Naruse clarifying that all questions are welcomed on ruby-core@. This is great, really.
December 25th, 2010 by lucas
(In short: bug fixed upstream, but affecting the version in Debian. Using the package from Ubuntu works.)
December 25th, 2010 by lucas
Seen on The Ruby Reflector (a blog aggregator for the Ruby community):
Under no circumstance should you install Ruby, Rubygems or any Ruby-related packages from apt-get. This system is out-dated and leads to major headaches. Avoid it for Ruby-related packages. We do Ruby, we know what’s best. Trust us.
It’s always nice to see people appreciate your work. :-)
December 12th, 2010 by lucas
- If you are running Debian squeeze or Debian unstable:
mpich2 1.3.1 is available in Debian experimental. Add experimental to your /etc/apt/sources.list, then
apt-get install mpich2/experimental
- If you are running Ubuntu natty:
mpich2 1.3.1 is available in the universe repository.
- If you are running Ubuntu lucid or Ubuntu maverick:
a backport has been requested, but they usually take some time to be processed. In the meantime, unofficial backports are available from http://people.debian.org/~lucas/mpich2/.
November 16th, 2010 by lucas
For the last few years, I’ve been a mostly happy customer of Sivit (now bought by Nerim). But recently, technical problems have become more frequent, and today, for the first time, a crash made me lose some data which was rather painful to restore from backups. Also, they are still stuck on with an ancient 2.6.16 kernel.
So, I’m looking into alternatives, and a promising one is Gandi hosting, based on virtual machines like Sivit.
- Would you recommend it for a mission-critical server?
- What’s your uptime? When was the last time your server had an unscheduled outage?
- When was the last time you lost data because of Gandi?
- What are the limits due to the Xen-based hosting? Can you run your own kernel (like the squeeze one)? Can you build additional modules (like tun)?
- What else should I know?
November 3rd, 2010 by lucas
He worked on the patch by installing his own copy of bugs.cgi on alioth. Don’t hesitate to do the same with your team!
October 31st, 2010 by lucas
So, I’m (almost) back from the first edition of MiniDebConf Paris, which was a success thanks to the great organizing skills in panic mode of Carl Chenet and Mehdi Dogguy. I think that everybody is already looking forward to the next edition.
I met lots of people, and it was great to be able to finally put faces on names from the french free software community. I gave two talk there, the first one on Debian and Ubuntu (slides), the second one on Debian Quality Assurance (slides), which both went well (I think).
I also hacked a bit:
- I added tags and “claimed by” to UDD Bugs Search.
- I worked on my piuparts replacement (which really needs a sexy name ; I’m open to suggestions), processing the results, making some improvements to the script, and filing 16 RC bugs.
If you want to help me, here are some easy tasks that need takers (it’s unlikely that I’ll be able to tackle them anytime soon):
One missing thing in UDD Bugs Search is information about the deferred/delayed queue. Unfortunately, the ftp-masters’ status information is not available in a machine-parseable format. Improve dak code to also export the data in a machine-parseable format (JSON, YAML). I was told the changes are to be done in
Write the corresponding UDD importer (actually, that’s a 30 mins job for me, so I could easily find time to do it if the data was available).
- Another missing thing is comments (as on bts.turzimmer.net). I don’t really have good ideas about how to implement them, so if you want to tackle that with your own idea, go ahead. (It’s probably easy to setup a copy of bugs.cgi on alioth if you are not a DD). The CGI is in Ruby.
- Help me process the logs of my piuparts replacement, and file the bugs. I don’t have any good scripts to automate bug filings yet. You need a good understanding of packages dependencies and maintainers scripts, but it’s a good way to learn, too. (I would need to regenerate the full results first, so talk to me if you are interested)
One of the other things I’d like to do is discuss ways to improve the synchronization of UDD (currently, it’s synchronized at arbitrary times, while we could sync Sources+Packages just after dinstall, for example).
October 30th, 2010 by lucas
Launchpad bug #643691: Please sync ubuntu-dev-tools 0.103 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)
Did development of ubuntu-dev-tools move from Ubuntu to Debian? :-)
September 29th, 2010 by lucas
In my Ruby packaging in Debian and Ubuntu: Mythbusting and FAQ, I wrote The Ruby developers (or expert users) community is generally very hostile towards Debian. Many harsh words and insults are used in discussions mentioning Debian in the ruby-core@ mailing list, and there are frequent recommendations to avoid the Debian packages and install from sources, which is quite demotivating (Actually, what prompted that blog post is someone calling Debian-specific changes unforgivable).
Zed A. Shaw just provided a very good example of that. Quoting the most juicy parts:
It’s simply a tactic to make sure that you are stuck on Debian.
If we look at this problem from an open source perspective, Debian is at a minimum being a horrible citizen.
What is happening is control is not aligned with responsibility. Debian has taken control of the software package and recrafted it for their very narrow set of system administrator users. However, they refuse to take responsibility for the defect and quality problems they create. Instead I end up being responsible for their mistakes, which is wrong.
If Debian is in control, then Debian should be made responsible. That’s the only way to get them to change it. If they don’t want to be responsible, then they should let me be in control.
I’m imagining a mass petition, maybe some funny ad campaigns, in-person confrontations meant to embarrass package maintainers, SEO tricks to get people off Debian, promotion of any alternative to Debian, anything to make them pay, apologize, and listen.
If you write software and you’re sick of Debian screwing up your gear, then shoot me ideas for how we can make this happen. I think that if enough of us band together to make Debian responsible for its actions we can actually get them to start asking us before they package our software to find out how we think it should be packaged.
On the technical part of the post:
The problem that Zed is experiencing is unknown to me, and also to the Debian and Ubuntu bug trackers. To my knowledge, rubygems doesn’t not require openssl or net/scp to work, and a simple grep through the sources kind-of confirms that. But of course, that blog post was written as a rant, not as a proper bug report.
My best guess is that the gem that Zed is installing requires openssl and net/scp. But of course, rubygems can’t just depend on all the libraries that applications or libraries installed via rubygems could possibly require. Regarding openssl, we had a problem in Ruby because of the licensing situation of Ruby (dual licensed GPLv2+ and Ruby license, linked with openssl, which might raise some eyebrows), so it was split off the main standard library package until recently (and, apparently, in the version Zed is using). For net/scp, it is not part of the standard library, and not a dependency of rubygems, so I don’t see why Zed expects it to be installed.
On the rest of the post:
Following my last post, several people volunteered to help with Ruby on Debian (and Ubuntu). In particular, Laurent Arnoud has been doing some fantastic work fixing the pkg-ruby-extras team’s RC bugs. Also, all the messages of support both in the comments of my last post were very much appreciated.
But I’m really wondering why the Ruby community generates so many poisonous people. All my work on Debian is done on a volunteer basis, and it’s really hard to get so much shit from it.